Interview with Steve Toth – A Solid Understanding In SEO Can Lead To Exponential Growth – Episode #99

 

Full Episode Transcript:

Kenny Soto 0:02  

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the people of digital marketing podcast with your host, Kenny Soto, and today’s special guest, Steve Toth. Hi, Steve, how are you?

 

Steve Toth 0:15  

Hey, I’m doing well, Kenny, thanks for having me.

 

Kenny Soto 0:17  

Now, as I mentioned before we started recording this podcast interview. This is very timely for me, because not only are you an expert in marketing, but you’re also an expert in SEO, which is the specialty I’ve decided to dive into more in my seventh year as a digital marketer. And taking into account all of the people I’ve met in Dubai doing this podcast, I know that seven years is practically nothing in the grand scheme of things. And you have a very long career being a marketer yourself. So I wanted to start this interview off by just asking you, How did you get into marketing in the first place?

 

Steve Toth 0:55  

Yeah, well, I would actually just preface that by saying that, like, for example, when I hired physicians, for people to come and work with me, I don’t really care about how long you’ve been doing it. I care about how intensely you’re doing it. Right. So I think a lot of employers are that way. And because SEO changes so rapidly, you know, to intense years in the weeds and following the industry super closely, is more valuable than five or 10 lakhs. It is a cool year. 

 

So maybe your audience could keep that in mind too when they’re applying and sort of furthering their career. It’s really a matter of how intensely you’re involved, not just the amount of time. But back to your question. I basically didn’t really major in anything in university that was related to marketing at all, I majored in labor relations because I kind of wanted to help working-class people at that time, and I graduated without any sense of direction, and then ended up taking a postgraduate certificate in advertising copywriting, from a place called Humber College up here in Toronto, Canada. 

 

And it taught me a lot about, like, lateral thinking about advertising. Basically, basically, he gave me a really good intro to the creative side of marketing. And I graduated in 2008, which was around the turn of the recession, and ended up getting a very low-paying job in social media for an artist management company, like I’m talking like, low low, like not even minimum wage internship that lasted a year, and then parlayed that into a role for copywriter and a web development agency and was put in charge of the blog. And that’s really where I started to experiment with SEO. So that was back in 2010.

 

Kenny Soto 2:48  

Now to get more context, how I discovered you, I can’t remember the exact podcast, but you have a unique story, in that you helped FreshBooks, scale their marketing efforts, their SEO efforts, specifically rather quickly. Can you talk about that? 

 

Steve Toth 3:08  

Yeah, for sure. So I was the full-time SEO manager at FreshBooks from around mid-2018 till early 2020. So about two years, we had two major initiatives. There, we had an initiative around invoice templates, which was a money keyword for us extremely high volume keyword at 300,000 searches per month. And then we also had 110 pages based on all the longtail variations of that. So, invoice templates for graphic designers for lawyers for contractors, PDF Word Excel, just totaled 110 pages around invoice templates, and it did really well. 

 

And we ended up ranking number one for that head term for almost two years. So that definitely like within the organization got us a lot of credit and credibility because we were basically setting records for free trials generated through SEO. And then we had another initiative that was more like a content top-of-funnel play, where my boss came to me and said, Hey, Steve, I need 100 I need 1000 articles. And then he just walked away. And he said that that that was all he told me. My boss is an awesome guy. 

 

He’s not a jerk. He’s actually a great, great leader, my boss at the time, and I still keep in touch with him. But I needed to know what to do, right? Like I had no idea how I was going to generate 1000 decent blog topics. So what we did was mind that people also asked questions on Google. And we probably mined 1000s of them probably four or 5000 and then around topics like accounting invoicing, taxes, and entrepreneurship, and, came up with in the end 650 articles. And those 650 articles that we wrote were Have any year ended up generating 50,000 clicks per day?

 

Kenny Soto 5:06  

Now, when I hear that stat, what comes to my mind is, there’s probably a bunch of days that you had where there’s a lot of experimentation, a lot of lagging indicators, if you will, where you’re publishing on a regular cadence, but you don’t really see the impact right away. This leads to a series of questions I want to ask you because I’ve had SEO experts in the past, give their own opinions on what SEO is, but everyone’s answers are different. Well, how would you define SEO?

 

Steve Toth 5:42  

These days, I would say, SEO is basically content marketing. And by that, I mean, you know, if you’re writing about a specific topic, you want to be able to cover all aspects of that topic. So if you want to rank a page, I don’t know, let’s say the page was on like best credit cards. And you would have to create pages, not only not one page, but you want to rank a series of pages. 

 

So you might want to do like Best Travel credit cards, best reward, credit cards, best, whatever, and create like a net around that big best credit cards page and like, publish, you know, a lot of content for that topic, right? So same thing that we did with invoice templates, we didn’t just create one page, we created a whole series of pages around invoice templates. And yeah, I think if you’re just getting into SEO, don’t think that one page, even if you perfectly optimize it, using surfer, or whatever you use a phrase or you know, whatever, you’re not going to rank with just one page, you’re gonna need like a comprehensive set of pages to support that main one.

 

Kenny Soto 7:00  

Now, let’s dive in a little more here. I want to start with like strategy. And then we’ll dive into tactics and tools, extra, etc. When it comes to strategy. There are obviously certain things that SEO specialists, SEO, lead manager, director of SEO, etc, know that other marketers don’t. And I find that one of the most important things, whether it’s SEO or any marketing function, for that matter, one of the most important things to consider is how you’re communicating what your function is doing to the rest of your team because a lot of people don’t have context. What are the three things that you mentioned to people who know a little bit about marketing, but want to learn more about SEO? What are those three things that you tell them? Like, these are the basic things to understand, as you’re creating an SEO strategy?

 

Steve Toth 7:48  

Yeah, probably the number one thing is going to be the SEO takes time that we can expect to launch a page and have it start generating, you know, trials or leads, or whatever your KPI is, that usually when we release a comprehensive set of content, that first six months is going to be fairly flat, that we should expect to not see very much out of that. And during those first six months, we typically are just gathering impressions and Google Search Console. 

 

So we’re just starting to rank and we’re just starting to show on the search engine results page. And then from the six to nine-month mark is sort of when we start getting more clicks and just slowly going up into the right. And then if we do things like Link, build, and refresh our content, then that nine to 12 months should be exponential growth. 

 

So the first thing is setting the expectations that this is a long-term effort versus something that’s shorter-term. I guess the second would be an I don’t have a third in my mind, they’ll have to make it up. But the second would be linked. So if you’ve got two, sorry about that. If you’ve got two pieces of content that are equal, then, you know, how is Google going to discern which content is going to be more relevant or authoritative? Well, it’s going to be the links that point to each article and the quality of those links, and the relevance of those links. So basically, links are a way to tell Google that you are more authoritative than other pages or other sites that also cover that same topic. 

 

So there can be a couple of things that lend to your authoritativeness. One is that complete topical coverage that I mentioned around the different types of credit cards or whatever you’re targeting. And then the second is the links pointing into those pages and links pointing into the site, and how you internally link out everything. So yeah, the second is just because we released this content doesn’t mean that it’ll just rank on its own, we actually have to build links to this content in order to help its authority. 

 

And then the third, I guess, you know, there’s like Link, building content, patience isn’t just like commitment. So, commitment to speed. Like, when you start out with a campaign, oftentimes, things get held back with like red tape, or, you know, there’s just like, a lot of delays in the process or whatever. So I always tell clients that like, the faster they are, we don’t have to get things out perfectly, we just need to get them out. Because Google’s not even crawling, or not even indexing pages reliably anymore. There’s super amazing quality content for some of my clients that haven’t been indexed. 

 

So we have to find ways to do that. And then just really the rate that we publish, you know, just don’t, don’t, don’t slack on it, and just get it out there as soon as possible. And, you know, commit the resources, right? So you can hire an SEO manager for your company, or you can hire a consultant. But if you don’t have the web developers, the content writers, the designers, UX people, whoever, the uploaders. If you don’t have all those other things in place, you’re not going to be successful.

 

Kenny Soto 11:44  

Now, you mentioned that speed is important. And I wanted to highlight that because I don’t think it’s only important for SEO, at least in my experience, working in multiple marketing functions, speeds are important in general, just because you can always retroactively fix content that you have in your archive.

 

Steve Toth 12:15  

100%. Yeah, getting something out at 80% is better than delaying it two months and waiting until you’re 100%. So the other thing to note about that specifically on SEO is that you know, nobody, like if it’s a paid search landing page, that might be something different because you’re driving clicks to it right away. But chances are, nobody’s gonna see that content if it’s SEO focused, because it’s not even going to rank. So there are people, you know, in the affiliate space, who literally just like Bill, so it’s a kind of a strategy whereby, like, they create like a sitemap, and they know all the different pages that they want to target. And they literally just put like aI content on all of those things. And then they wait to see which pages start to show up impressions and all that. And then they go and actually create a real content page.

 

Kenny Soto 13:16  

This is a great tangent before we continue AI-generated content. I keep hearing mixed reviews. I haven’t tried it out myself because of these mixed reviews, are AI Generated Content tools useful? And Are they helpful, specifically in the realm of SEO?

 

Steve Toth 13:35  

So I don’t use them either. But I have a few sites, from different friends of mine, in my search console, where I can sort of take a look and see, you know, how the content is performing. And it does perform fairly well. But my main issue is like, it’s not a good thing for users. It’s not a good thing for Google, it’s actually creating a massive problem for Google. And one of the things that are leading to the indexing issues with Google is just that there’s more like exponentially more content being thrown onto the web, daily than there ever was, with the advent of all these tools that utilize GPT. 

 

Three, the engine that provides this AI content, the AI and you know, and the fact that like it’s not going to convert, right, it’s never going to, like, convince a person and tell a story. You know, that kind of stuff. I think it’s purely just for like traffic purposes. And if you’re selling display ads, or if you you want to not sell but if your housing, display ads, and that are all you care about then fine, but you’re not really doing a service to the user.

 

Kenny Soto 14:57  

Now, this leads to my next question, How do you find a balance between optimizing a page for search and having something that’s worth reading?

 

Steve Toth 15:08  

Yeah, that’s a great question. So I would say, you know, having something worth reading, you obviously need a skilled writer to create a hook, at the beginning of your article, tell a bit of a story create an entry. But the rare thing is to find a writer who’s able to do that, and then also write for SEO. So it can be, it can be tricky to find that perfect balance between somebody who can do that. But you know, well, actually, I have a client right now, who I took on for a short-term project. So something they usually do, but I really liked the CEO. 

 

So I agreed to it. And their site has not been really optimized for SEO yet, it has, it has gotten a fair amount of traffic. And they are running into like some issues where they’re their storytelling a little bit too much. And honestly, those stories are veering away from the focus of the article. So you know, I’ve had to sort of delicately coach them on not going too far into different tangents. And that is if you’re telling a story or telling a hook to make that relevant to the article, right?

 

Kenny Soto 16:35  

What are the metrics that actually matter? When you’re measuring SEO?

 

Steve Toth 16:43  

Well, I think if you’re a SaaS company, ultimately the number of trials or demos that you’re booking, right, because that’s why you do it. But then they’re also, you know, things like a top and mid-funnel content, that that matter immensely. I mean, like, you know, SEO has a huge part to play in educating users as to why they need a solution or why they should go with your solution. 

 

So, you know, for those articles, I would say, we look more like the traffic numbers. But when it comes down to it, you need to make sure you’ve got pages that you know, are going to convert and generate the leads or the trials or whatever you’re sort of targeting, and then focus on those and as your main indicator, and then appropriately identify articles that are part of the mid or bottom, mid or top funnel, and measured those based on their engagement metrics, like clicks time on site. Bounce Rate is usually going to be high on those but some of the metrics that you’d find in GA.

 

Kenny Soto 18:01  

This is a question I’m asking because you sell your services as an SEO consultant. But I feel like you might have a unique perspective here, where when it comes to being successful as a business, do you need SEO to succeed?

 

Steve Toth 18:21  

Not every business is a good fit for SEO, some businesses don’t have the awareness in the market and people searching for them. So for them, until that awareness is built, and people are searching, have specific non-branded keywords that they could find that business through, then SEO is a terrible fit for them. So don’t do it at all. Other businesses may only be able to sell to a specific type of user, you know, maybe it’s like in a certain state, or maybe it’s they have to have a certain platform in order to be able to use this product, so the market shrinks for them. 

 

I’m not saying that SEO can’t work for those types of businesses, but they have to realize that, you know, the people who enter their site, have to meet a bunch of criteria. And that’s probably going to rule out like 80 or 90% of the people that visit that that that company’s website. So no, you don’t need SEO to be successful. But if you have people searching for what you do with non-branded keywords, then absolutely it can be incredibly lucrative. And, you know, there are a lot of companies that are very gun-shy with SEO. 

 

There are a lot of companies that are highly committed to Google ads, and that like, you know, addiction of spending and get back and those are the costs of Google ads are going up pretty much every year. So you know, being able to target organic search for a lot of those companies can really offset what they go after. 

 

And, and the other cool thing about SEO is like when you finally have that success after, you know, a year of committing to a campaign, that if you’re a marketing department, you’re probably measuring like, especially with SAS, like a blended CAC, so the cost for acquiring customers, you’re measuring a blended number, that SEO numbers, since it’s usually going to be the lowest cost for a trial is actually going to anchor the other channels and allow those other channels to be more aggressive in their like LTV to CAC ratio. So if a company is spending, you know, $1, for every $4, it gets back, it may be, you know, it can maybe even go more aggressive in some channels, because SEO is offsetting that extra cost.

 

Kenny Soto 21:12  

Now, as you mentioned, I like to share my own opinion on something when it comes to that blended CAC that you just talked about some businesses, and it is my opinion that you should some businesses calculate the CAC from SEO, by including salaries and salaries for the SEO manager as well as the contracted writers or in house writers. So for those of us listening, who might be considering measuring SEO in that way, it’s important to keep in mind that you should have at least a conversation about whether we should mention or calculate blended CAC by incorporating salaries into that as well.

 

Steve Toth 21:54  

Yeah, I think oftentimes, that decision is made outside of the marketing department as well. So you may have some influence. And if you want better results, just take a pickup, it’s easy.

 

Kenny Soto 22:09  

Although a lot of people don’t do it. Now, my next question for you is. When should the team focus on zero search volume keywords?

 

Steve Toth 22:23  

All the time? I think, you know, if, if so, I have written about this fairly extensively. And I’ve had examples of, you know, pages where literally all the keywords had zero search volume, but that page still generated 1500 clicks a month. And the reason why you want to focus on those as well, not enough SEOs use their brain When doing keyword research. And you’ve got to like just put in the work. 

 

And actually, you know, ask yourself, Does this seem like something somebody would search for? Or is this an auto-completed search in Google? Is this a question that Google is telling you that real searchers perform all of these things? And the reason to go after them is specifically that, you know, most of the SEO people who see zero search volume, automatically rule those out? Because they’re like, 

 

Oh, well, if there’s nobody searching for it, why? Why would I bother optimizing for it? But if you use your brain, and you say, Well, this is actually something that potentially, I think, you know, people are wondering, just go for it, you know, just go for it and try it. Maybe don’t try hundreds of them, but try 10 And see, monitor their performance, and see how they go.

 

Kenny Soto 23:50  

Yeah, I tend to use zero search volume keywords like H threes, h2, and sometimes FAQ schema, I’ll add in some of those questions as well. Because at the end of the day, even if the tool you’re using is Ahrefs or SEMrush, etc. Even if those tools are saying zero, people are searching on average, there might be at least five people who searched next month who convert because you put that keyword in your content. 

 

So they may not necessarily be a priority, but you should still incorporate them in the content, which goes back to a previous topic that we talked about, which is the balance between optimizing for search and also creating content that people want to read. And nine times out of 10, even if people aren’t searching for that, it’s something you can add to the content to add more color.

 

Steve Toth 24:39  

Yeah, absolutely. And you can find these keywords in some keyword research tools. I’m actually not that huge on using keyword research tools other than Google itself. I really like using Google’s starting point, like putting in a keyword and then putting in all different numbers or letters of the alphabet and seeing what autocomplete starts to populate around your main keyword. That’s a really great way to do research. 

 

The other things that you can do are, go into your Google Search Console, to a popular page, and export all of the keywords that are ranking, at least, you know, position one through 100, and then start to look at the keywords that are ranking very poorly, like an 80th 90th 70th 50th position. And you’ll often find like very low impressions, but you’ll find like really meaty topics that the page itself is not quite, perfectly suited to and relevant. But it’s ranking somewhere in position 40 to 100. And you can get a lot of great topics that way.

 

Kenny Soto 25:57  

My next question is our first-ever audience question that was submitted by Lindsey Dixon, who just so happens to be my English teacher in high school. So now, this question is specific to startups for someone who’s bootstrapping a startup, and they don’t have a dedicated resource dedicated marketing team, and they’re kind of juggling multiple things, operations, recruiting, raising money, and they’re also considering doing some kind of marketing for their business, what’s the one thing they should focus on if they decide to dive into SEO? 

 

Steve Toth 26:31  

Well, you need somebody who can architect the strategy for you, right, so if you’re a young company like that, you’re likely marketing hire is not going to be like an all in intense SEO manager, because a lot of the time SEO people are very, not the greatest, like, you know, like, social communicators within a company, or I’m just stereotyping here, but I’ve met quite a few. And, so you need to designate somebody to be in charge of that effort for you. 

 

And the best way I would say, is really just to like, not that I want to, like, say, consultants are the only answer, but consultants fill in the really nice void for companies like that because you were not full-time employees. You know, depending on who you hire, you can probably get them pretty affordably. And, and then that person, you know, can commit, not that I would recommend charging hourly, but they would commit, you know, a few hours a week to really setting the direction and the course, for the company, and then fulfilling a lot of the content production and stuff like that with outside vendors as well. 

 

So, you know, when I work with clients, we, you know, typically are doing anywhere from 10 to 40 content briefs per month, just depending on the size of the engagement. So that SEO person or like content marketing, a person with or SEO person with a content marketing bent, can, you know come in there and create the briefs and help architect the strategy, ensure everything’s optimized, refresh that content after it’s been live for a little while, and, and then basically just act as, as the main strategist and then have that work fulfilled, in combination with an outside vendor to do the writing, and then maybe a generalist at the company who can sort of just managing the project internally.

 

Kenny Soto 28:37  

I would agree with that. And another thing to add, if you are outsourcing several aspects of your SEO marketing to an outside vendor, it’s okay to outsource writing, outsource link building and outsource technical SEO, audits and making sure everything’s working. You definitely don’t want to outsource strategy, because you want to make sure the person who’s crafting the strategy is taking into consideration how your business makes revenue. And the best person to understand that would be someone who’s internal, who’s in-house in the team.

 

Steve Toth 29:08  

Yeah, I mean, I agree. And honestly, I disagree with that a little bit because a good consultant will make sure that he or she understands the business. And it’s not like if you know, worked for FreshBooks and I was a consultant, I couldn’t look at the invoice templates opportunity and do a great job with that. If it is some kind of like niche, you know, software that builds microchips that builds what spaceships or whatever, like, you know, that that kind of stuff. I would definitely agree that somebody internally needs to be leading that But oftentimes, then you know, SEO projects are not so super complicated.

 

Kenny Soto 29:50  

It’s nuanced. And that leads to the next topic I want to cover with you. This is outside of SEO. So career advice, there are multiple paths that a marketer can take CMO isn’t always the only path they can do, you can become a consultant, why did you decide to be a consultant, as you’ve progressed throughout your career?

 

Steve Toth 30:12  

Well, I knew that I liked working with people, like, it wasn’t a case for me of like, wanting to like, just shield myself from people and become an affiliate marketer, I, you know, quite enjoy the meetings and getting to know my clients. And, you know, I’m lucky enough that I get to choose the clients, so they’re all fairly, you know, respectful, laid back, and just want to do a good job. So I kind of, you know, working at different agencies, I had tons of exposure to that sort of lifestyle with clients. 

 

And, you know, I didn’t love it working for somebody else, but I really liked it working for me. And then with my last job at FreshBooks, being an in-house role, that was a lot different. And basically just what happened, there was, you know, I started posting on LinkedIn. And then I also started my newsletter in, in the summer of 2019, no SEO, no book, where I email one page of my notebook to list and, you know, that’s been going on for three years now. And grown to 13,000 subscribers all organically No, now paid nothing. 

 

And it has just afforded me the ability to, you know, have enough lead flow without any outbound marketing, I don’t do any cold emailing, or really, I barely do any marketing for myself, other than giving away free content. So, you know, when I started to get those different opportunities, and my eyes started to open up about the power of LinkedIn, you know, it was clear to me that this was a path that I wanted to pursue. I loved SEO, and, and the fact that I get to work on it with, you know, a bunch of different world-class sites and great companies, you know, with happy employees who’ve liked their jobs, and all that kind of stuff, really makes it, you know, an easy choice for me, in terms of like what to do.

 

Kenny Soto 32:15  

Two more questions for you. How do you stay up to date, with such a rapidly changing practice?

 

Steve Toth 32:24  

I don’t read any news. I don’t, I don’t go on Search Engine Land or search engine, whatever, journal. That’s not really how I stay up to date. I’m more involved in the community aspect. So having a circle around me, that’s constantly discussing what they’re seeing with their own sites, not just like, what Search Engine Land says about the update like I want to hear, like real accounts for real people. 

 

So I think immersing yourself in a community of marketers, or specifically SEOs, in my case, is going to help you stay on top of things the most. And the other, like, I guess, you know, another area that I glean a lot of news from is actually Facebook, because I’m involved in a lot of the groups there. And then I’ve also made friends with a lot of the people who are active, you know, contributing to the groups. 

 

And it’s, it’s, it’s a way that, you know, I’m just regularly browsing Facebook, and then those group posts always come into my feed, and then I dig in a little bit more. But yeah, I’ve got, you know, a pretty good community of friends around me who are all like, who I would consider like, really world-class SEOs. And we just share a lot of knowledge together.

 

Kenny Soto 33:43  

I can’t remember who tweeted this, but someone that I follow was like, marketers are the best people to work with, because everyone’s marketing, how they’re marketing. So you get a free education online all the time.

 

Steve Toth 33:56  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So follow Oh, you know, that’s what I’m doing. Right. So every week, I have to come up with a new thing to share with the list. And, you know, that’s my way of generating leads. So I have no intention of stopping even after three years.

 

Kenny Soto 34:16  

My last question for you, Steve is hypothetical, because time machines don’t exist. But if they did, and you can go back in time, about 10 years since the past, knowing everything you know, right now, how would you specifically accelerate the speed of your career?

 

Steve Toth 34:33  

Great question. I think obviously, I would start SEO notebooks sooner than then 2019 That’d be a no-brainer for me. And but you know, I’ve no regrets in terms of the way that things have gone, because even in these last 10 years, I’ve learned so much. Maybe I would, you know, start there was also I think back, you know, going back 10 years, and it’s probably true It continues forward and then looking back to now that there’s less content than there was on the web. 

 

And that if you started a site like NerdWallet or The Motley Fool, or like all these really big, big affiliate sites, the wire cutter, that there would be opportunities there, that would be huge to go after. So it would be, it would be an amazing feat to go and create a site like that, not to say that it can’t be done today, of course, there will be sites that have been born in 2022, that are going to do amazingly few years or five years, 10 years. But I think the opportunity for content marketing just gets harder and harder because there are more people publishing and Google has more choices of what it can rank.

 

Kenny Soto 35:51  

When you mentioned that, I think of the importance of being a first or an early mover into the space. And the three things that I was thinking about as you gave that answer were, how can I learn more about what three, community building and TikTok? Because those are like, I feel like, those are the three things that if marketers aren’t paying attention to them this year, next year, or the following year, in 10 years time, they’ll regret that as well. Yeah, for sure. Now, Steve, if anyone wants to find you online, where can they go?

 

Steve Toth 36:22  

Seo notebook.com. That’s the best place to sign up for my newsletter. It’s not even really a newsletter. So so every week, you get one page of my notebook for free. And yeah, I just basically, you know, give away all my knowledge. I don’t, I don’t hold anything back. There are no secrets that I keep. Everything is openly and freely shared for free. And it’s afforded me a really amazing lifestyle and more clients than I could handle and stuff. 

 

So no intention of stopping SEO notebooks. So that’s the best place. And then I’m working on a WordPress plugin that integrates Google Search Console data and helps you refresh your existing content called G score.io. You can currently sign up for the waitlist there.

 

Kenny Soto 37:08  

There you have it, folks. Thank you, Steve, for your time today. And thank you to your listener for listening to another episode of the people Digital Marketing podcast. This is episode 99. In the next episode, we will not be having a guest, or I guess we will, it’s gonna be myself. 

 

I’m wanting to do a deep dive into everything I’ve learned in the world of marketing for the last seven years and basically share things that I wish I knew from day one that probably would have made my life easier if I knew it back then. So stay tuned for that. Thanks again, Steve. And thank you to the listener. I hope you have a great week.

 

Steve Toth 37:44  

Congratulations on your 100th episode. That’s awesome.

 

Kenny Soto 37:46  

Thank you.